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Название темыаргонавтика
URL темыhttps://chronologia.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=264&topic_id=86648&mesg_id=86982
86982, аргонавтика
Послано guest, 14-09-2012 00:05
неплохой сайт по теме: аргонавтика, золотое руно, что это могло быть + параллельные сюжеты

http://www.argonauts-book.com/index.html Jason and the Argonauts: The Epic History of a Greek Myth (working title) By JASON COLAVITO
Before there was Greece, there was Jason and his quest for the Golden Fleece... Join the Quest for the Golden Fleece! This book will answer the question: What was the Golden Fleece, and where is it today?

некоторые ссылки-цитаты-выдержки:

http://www.argonauts-book.com/jason-and-perseus.html JASON AND PERSEUS - сравнение Ясона и Персея
PERSEUS... Becomes king of a city other than his own. - возможно, это перенос столицы Дмитрием Донским= Константином Великим.
При сравнении "голова Медузы" накладывается на "золотое руно", получается.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/jason-and-heracles.html JASON AND HERACLES - Ясон и Геракл
По-гречески яблоко и руно звучат близко или даже одинаково melon.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/jason-and-theseus.html JASON AND THESEUS Ясон и Тесей

http://www.argonauts-book.com/isis-and-osiris.html ISIS AND OSIRIS
In the Argonaut myth, Medea is held responsible for the dismemberment and resurrection, successful or otherwise, of Jason, Aeson, and Pelias, depending on the version consulted. To effect this mystical rebirth, the person is killed and his body is cut into many pieces and placed into a cauldron or pot with healing herbs. After Medea performs incantations and spells, the body emerges from its container restored to the vigor of youth. The myth of the death and resurrection of Osiris bears a resemblance to this mystical process, whereby the goddess Isis, like Medea a powerful healer and sorceress, gathers to dismembered parts of Osiris' corpse, which had been placed in a casket, and resurrects him through a magical process.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-purple.html THE FLEECE AS PURPLE AND OTHER TYPES OF CLOTH AND COMMERCE
Some call it all-gold , others purple. Simonides in his hymn to Poseidon says it was dyed with the sea-purple.
Many have called it golden, and Apollonius has followed them, but Simonides sometimes calls it white, sometimes purple.
Some scholars have connected this with the ancient practice of dying wool purple or red, as Virgil relates in Georgics 3 and in the Bible in Exodus 25:5, when God demands an offering of precious goods:
Exodus 25:3-7 These are the offerings you are to receive from them: gold, silver and bronze; blue, purple and scarlet yarn and fine linen; goat hair; ram skins dyed red and hides of sea cows; acacia wood; olive oil for the light; spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense; and onyx stones and other gems to be mounted on the ephod and breastpiece. (New International Version) - - - - сравнивают с тем фрагментом Исхода, где, по мнению ФиН, см. "Пророк завоеватель..." стр. 496, речь идет о скинии-кузне и возможно, алхимическом описании металлургического процесса. В этом же ряду оказываются и овны Полифема:

Homer describes the rams of Polyphemus is having a violet coloured fleece.
Homer, Odyssey 9.425 Rams there were, well-fed and thick of fleece, fine beasts and large, with wool dark as the violet.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-gold-mining.html THE FLEECE AS GOLD MINING AND OTHER COLCHIAN WEALTH
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-the-name-ram.html THE FLEECE AS A PERSON OR OBJECT NAMED RAM
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-royal-power.html THE FLEECE AS ROYAL POWER
Pelias tells Jason he must retrieve the Fleece to be king and that Aeetes believes that possession of the Fleece guarantees his kingdom
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-book.html THE FLEECE AS ALCHEMICAL BOOK
http://www.argonauts-book.com/jason-and-alchemy.html JASON AND ALCHEMY 17th Century

Alchemistic authors were wont to claim that the Argonautic expedition symbolized the search for the Philosophers' Stone. This theory is as old as Dionysius of Mitylene, who lived about 50 B. C. Glauber, the German physician, records this interpretation in the following quaint language: "When ancient Philosophers by poetical parables described the laborious navigation of Jason to the island Colchos, where resided a huge dragon vomiting fire, which with eyes never closed, diligently watched the golden fleece, they added this, viz., that Jason was taught by his wife Medea to cast to this waking dragon an edible medicine to be swallowed, whereby he should be killed and burst; and that Jason should presently take the dragon (thus slain) and totally submerge him in the Stygian lake. ...the watching dragon vomiting fire denotes salt-nitre and sulphur; and the golden fleece is the tincture or soul of sulphur, by the help of which Jason restored health to his aged father, and acquired to himself immense riches. By the pills of Medea is understood the preparation of sulphur and sal mirabile. By the total submersion of the dragon in the Stygian lake is intimated the fixation of sulphur by Stygian water, that is, Aqua Fortis. Whence it is sufficiently clear how obscurely the ancient Philosophers did describe their fixation of sulphur by nitre, and how secretly they hid it from the eyes of the unworthy."
Satiric View
This type of alchemical mumbo-jumbo was parodied in Ben Johnson's The Alchemist (1610), a satiric play in which Sir Epicure Mammon utters the following lines:
I have a piece of Jason’s fleece, too,
Which was no other than a book of alchemy,
Writ in large sheepskin, a good fat ram-vellum.
Such was Pythagoras’ thigh, Pandora’s tub;
And all that fable of Medea’s charms,
The manner of our work: the bulls, our furnace,
Still breathing fire: our argent-vive, the dragon:
The dragon’s teeth, mercury sublimate,
That keeps the whiteness, hardness, and the biting;
And they are gathered into Jason’s helm,
(The alembic ), and then sowed in Mars his field,
And thence sublimed so often, till they’re fixed.

Глауберово описание навевает мысли о порохе (сера, селитра). По мнению сатиры, сюда же относится и "золотое бедро Пифагора" (которое, согласно ФиН, - отражение кесарева сечения, см.
http://www.chronologia.org/evangelia/2_09.html ), и "ящик Пандоры". Возможно, в сатире есть доля правды. И "быки" - действительно, печи металлургические.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-rain-cloud.html THE FLEECE AS RAIN CLOUD
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-covenant.html THE FLEECE AS COVENANT
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-blonde-hair.html THE FLEECE AS BLONDE HAIR
- золотое руно и золотые волосы (Сив?) - близкие образы.
http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-solar-symbol.html THE FLEECE AS SOLAR SYMBOL AND SYMBOL OF SPRING
Фрикс "повесил руно на дубе в роще Ареса<5>, либо посвятил руно в храм Ареса<6>, по Гелланику, в храм Зевса<7>." - почему руно было связано с воинственным богом Аресом? Овен, Aries, кстати, звучит очень близко к Аресу. И есть ли связь с тем Арием, которого осудили на Никейском соборе 395 года при Константине? Это он считается, по некоторым версиям, первым алхимиком? см. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C4%81bir_ibn_Hayy%C4%81n . Арес также связан с ариями, очевидно.

By the fabled sacrifice of the Ram to Mars was perpetuated the doctrine that Mars rules the sign Aries, the Ram; ...And as Phryxus was not engaged in a warlike expedition, why should he sacrifice to the god of war? He had stolen the golden fleece, and it was therefore more likely he should sacrifice to Mercury, the god of thieves. If he offered the sacrifice in gratitude for his safe journey, Mercury, the god of travellers, also was, for that reason, more deserving his worship.

In the legend of Deianeira, as in that of Iason and Glauke, the coat or shirt is laden with destruction even for Herakles. It represents, in fact, 'the clouds which rise from the waters and surround the sun like a dark raiment.' This robe Herakles tries to tear off, but the 'fiery mists embrace him, and are mingled with the parting rays of the sun, and the dying hero is seen through the scattered clouds of the sky, tearing his own body to pieces, till at last his bright form is consumed in a general conflagration.

he sun is generally symbolised by a fiery cloud, or golden fleece, as the mantle of glory and majesty in which the god is wrapped... Even in early Christian art the oval nimbus, or aureole, enveloping the whole form of the Blessed Virgin, may be referred to the same traditional idea.

The account of Jonah's sea voyage begins at the autumnal equinox, and the place where Noah entered the ark; and the two stories, as well as those of Jesus stilling the tempest and the shipwreck of Paul, are but variants of the same myth. ...Paul, at first called Saul (sol, sun), and a variant of the Greek-Roman sun-god Apollo, sailed when he had such a tempestuous voyage, and like Noah, Jonah and Jesus, finally got safely onto "dry land;... - действительно, Савл - солнце, рыжий, а "Павел" (или ср. англ. Пол) похоже на Аполло.

http://www.argonauts-book.com/fleece-as-hittite-sack.html THE FLEECE AS HITTITE SACRED SACK
http://www.argonauts-book.com/argonautica-as-catabasis.html ARGONAUTICA AS CATABASIS
http://www.argonauts-book.com/argonautica-and-india.html ARGONAUTICA AND INDIA
...For example, in the hymn from the Rig-Veda given below, the ancient Indian epic makes reference to an elixir or immortality or rejuvenation (like Medea's potions), fleeces associated with gold coloring, bulls, and other elements found in different combinations in the Jason myth. Indra, referenced in the hymn, was famed for his slaying of the chaos dragon Vritra, much as Jason either slays or subdues the sleepless dragon guarding the Fleece.
- возможно, индийский аналог "зелий Медеи" - это эликсир бессмертия или омоложения. А как известно, "древние китайцы" изобрели порох, отыскивая эликсир бессмертия.
Сравнивают также с Индрой и Вритрой, которых в свою очередь сравнивают с историей Юдифи и Олоферна:

"Holofernes seized the spring which was Bethulia's only water-supply, and so brought thirst as well as famine upon the people (7, 8.9, 11.12 f.; Ths. 2D, 4G). As withholder of the waters he is like Vritra; as holder of a spring, like Python and St. George's dragon. The assyrian host were so numerous that they stopped up rivers and covered the hills with their horse (compare Python covering Parnassos).
Holofernes' head, which Judith cut off, is a potent object like Medusa's; the enemy host's power resides in it." (Python: A Study of Delphic Myth and Its Origins Авторы: Joseph Eddy Fontenrose - 1959 - Social Science стр. 489)

Юдифь поражает спящего, опоенного Олоферна, Медея также окропила дракона, охранявшего руно, неким снотворным зельем (возможно, затем Ясон убил его, отрубил голову), а затем и великана Талоса также усыпила своими чарами, которого затем вроде как тоже убили. Персей также отрубает голову спящей Горгоне. А Голиафу отрубили голову уже убитому, кажется, т.е. тоже как бы уснувшему.
"Из черепа Вритры Индра сделал себе чашу." http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вритра

http://www.argonauts-book.com/the-dragon.html THE DRAGON (The Serpent)
The very “wisdom of the serpent” made him suspect; the devil, said St Augustine, “leo et draco est; leo propter impetum, draco propter insidias.” The dragon myths of the pagan East took new shapes in the legends of the victories of St Michael and St George; and the kindly snakes of the “good goddess” lived on in the immanissimus draco whose baneful activity in a cave of the Capitol was cut short by the intervention of the saintly pope Silvester I. (Duchesne, Liber pontificalis, i. 109 seq.).
and the slaying of a dragon is the crowning achievement of heroes—of Siegmund, of Beowulf, of Sigurd, of Arthur, of Tristram—even of Lancelot, the beau idéal of medieval chivalry.
The Chaldaean dragon Tiāmat had four legs, a scaly body, and wings. The Egyptian Apophis was a monstrous snake, as were also, originally at least, the Greek dracontes. The dragon of the Apocalypse (Rev. xii. 3), “the old serpent,” is many-headed, like the Greek Hydra. The dragon slain by Beowulf is a snake (worm), for it “buckles like a bow “; but that done to death by Sigurd, though its motions are heavy and snake-like, has legs, for he wounds it “behind the shoulder.” On the other hand, the dragon seen by King Arthur in his dreams is, according to Malory, winged and active, for it “swoughs” down from the sky.
Thus the knightly order of the vanquished dragon, instituted by the emperor Sigismund in 1418, celebrated the victory of orthodoxy over John Huss. Hell, too, is represented in medieval art as a dragon with gaping jaws belching fire. Of the dragons carried in effigy in religious processions some have become famous, e.g. the Gargouille (gargoyle) at Rouen, the Graülly at Metz, and the Tarasque at Tarascon.

папа Сильвестр убивает (или приручает?) дракона под Тарпейской скалой Капитолия, а также оживляет некоего быка ("минотавр"?), а заодно и двух пострадавших от этого дракона. Он спустился куда-то в подземелье и там с помощью молитв замотал дракону пасть веревкой (нить Ариадны?), т.е. запечатал его огнедышащую пасть. Был ли у дракона один глаз как у циклопа?

http://mythopath.blogspot.com/2012/01/saint-sylvester-and-dragon.html Saint Sylvester and the Dragon
...In the darkness flickered only three pale lights--the two lanterns and the eye of the dragon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_I
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MasoDiBanco.jp g
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beauharnais/6290140852/ Master Petrus, Pope Sylvester I. slaying the dragon and resurrecting its victims, 1510-1520
Pope Sylvester restored a dead ox to life which a magicial for a trial of skill killed, but could not restore to life. The ox is usually represented lying beside him.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beauharnais/6289623991/ detail
http://www.museicivicivicenza.it/en/mcp/opera.php/10487 Pope Saint Sylvester overcomes the dragon of the Tarpeian Rock
The panels illustrate four episodes from the life of Saint Sylvester (identified in each scene by the papal tiara and robes and by an inscription showing his name next to the figure), narrated by Eusebius of Caesarea. In the first the saint, who was elected Pope in 1413, is seated next to the Emperor Constantine and his mother Helena, who followed the Jewish religion. In a disputation with some learned rabbis from Rome before a curious crowd, he tames a wild bull, thus converting the Empress to Christianity. The second scene, set in a spacious architectural structure that symbolises the Lateran, shows the Pope baptising the Emperor Constantine, saving him from leprosy, in the presence of the civil and religious authorities of the time. The third episode shows the saint taming the dragon that threatened Rome from the cave of the Tarpeian Rock, near the Capitol. The last panel shows the solemn funeral of Saint Sylvester, who is lying under a sumptuous canopy, while his soul is accompanied to Heaven by two angels in the presence of a grieving crowd.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/renzodionigi/3533574156/ Saint Sylvester and the Dragon Agnolo Gaddi (Agnolo di Taddeo Gaddi)

правильно ли понял, что Св Елена исповедовала иудаизм?

http://jekely.blogspot.com/2011/12/pope-sylvester-and-regalia-of-st.html Pope Sylvester and the regalia of St. Stephen (Happy New Year!)

вот еще сюжет:
Constantine hands Pope Sylvester I a statuette of Roma Aeterna (eternal Rome)

сравните с этим:
Aldegrever, Heinrich 1502-1555/61: Medea reicht Jason die Statuette eines Kriegers , 1529. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Medea_and_Jason.jp g

Georg Pencz: Jason und Medea, 1539 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Georg_Pencz_Jason_und_Medea.jp g
м.б. это в ряду мифов-сюжетов о "сотворении человека" (Прометей, Пандора, Адам-Ева и пр.)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_Aeterna
silver antoninianus struck by Philip the Arab in Rome 247 AD; ref.: RIC 44b - R: Roma seated left on shield, holding Victory and scepter ROMAE AETERNAE - - - - возможно, Рома - это все та же Афина? амазонка? Венера-Афродита?
In the city of Rome itself, the earliest known state cult to dea Roma was combined with cult to Venus at the Hadrianic Temple of Venus and Roma. This was the largest temple in the city, probably dedicated to inaugurate the reformed festival of Parilia, which was known thereafter as the Romaea after the Eastern festival in Roma's honour. The temple contained the seated, Hellenised image of dea Roma - the Palladium in her right hand symbolised Rome's eternity.<23><24> In Rome, this was a novel realisation. Greek interpretations of Roma as a dignified deity had transformed her from a symbol of military dominance to one of Imperial protection and gravitas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parilia
In ancient Roman religion, the Parilia is a festival of rural character performed annually on April 21, aimed at cleansing both sheep and shepherd. It is carried out in acknowledgment to the Roman deity Pales, a deity of uncertain gender who was a patron of shepherds and sheep.<1>
According to this myth, Romulus, upon reaching Rome on the day of the Parilia, took a stick and engraved a line in the ground that defined the boundaries of the new city (pomerium). He then prayed to the gods Jupiter, Mars, and Vesta asking for protection of this area. However, his brother Remus, unaware of the boundaries, crossed the line and was struck down by Romulus's henchman Celer.<4>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium_(mythology)
In Greek and Roman mythology, a palladium or palladion was an image of great antiquity on which the safety of a city was said to depend. "Palladium" especially signified the wooden statue (xoanon) of Pallas Athena that Odysseus and Diomedes stole from the citadel of Troy and which was later taken to the future site of Rome by Aeneas. The Roman story is related in Virgil's Aeneid and other works.
In English, since circa 1600, the word "palladium" has meant anything believed to provide protection or safety — a safeguard.
The Trojan Palladium
Origins
The Trojan Palladium was said to be a wooden like image of Pallas (whom the Greeks identified with Athena and the Romans with Minerva) and to have fallen from heaven in answer to the prayer of Ilus, the founder of Troy.
Arrival at Rome
According to various versions of this legend the Trojan Palladium found its way to Athens, or Argos, or Sparta (all in Greece), or Rome in Italy.
In Late Antiquity, it was rumored that the Palladium was transferred from Rome to Constantinople by Constantine the Great and buried under the Column of Constantine in his forum.<15> Such a move would have undermined the primacy of Rome, and was naturally seen as a move by Constantine to legitimize his reign.
<15> ^ Averil Cameron (1993), The Later Roman Empire, 170.
The Athenian Palladium
The goddess Athena was worshipped on the Acropolis of Athens under many names and cults, the most illustrious of which was of the Athena Poliás, " of the city". The cult image of the Poliás was a wooden effigy, often referred to as the "xóanon diipetés" (the "carving that fell from heaven"), made of olive wood and housed in the east-facing wing of the Erechtheum temple in the classical era.
Palladium-equivalents in other cultures
Asherah pole, a sacred tree or pole that stood near Canaanite religious locations to honor the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah.
Ancile, an earlier Roman "palladium"
The Virgin Hodegetria — an ancient Madonna and Child image — was the traditional protectress of Byzantine Constantinople. At times of siege it was paraded along the city walls. At the final fall of the city (1453) it failed to deter the Turks, was pillaged, and disappeared forever.
The Emerald Buddha, a palladium of the Kingdom of Thailand.
Our Lady of Kazan, a Byzantine-style holy icon, considered the protectress of Russia and lost in 1904.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancile Анкил
The Ancile, in ancient Rome, is the legendary buckler shield of the god Mars, said to have fallen from heaven, upon Numa Pompilius. At the same time, a voice was heard which declared that Rome should be mistress of the world while the shield was preserved. The Ancile was, as it were, the palladium of Rome.

палладиум (эгида?) связывался с Константином = Дмитрием Донским. Папа Сильвестр возможно отражение Сергия Радонежского?

рельеф с Никой напоминает сцену в Раю, не правда ли?
Nike (Victory) offers an egg to a snake entwined around a column surmounted by the Trojan Palladium. (Marble bas relief, Roman copy of the late 1st Century AD. After a neo-Attic original of the Hellenistic era.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nike_warrior_Louvre_Ma969.jp g

http://www.argonauts-book.com/argonauts-in-medieval--modern-art.html The Argonauts in Medieval and Modern Art
http://www.argonauts-book.com/argonauts-in-ancient-art.html The Argonauts in Ancient Art
This red figure cup by the Douris Painter, c. 480-470 BCE is one of the oldest images of Jason. It depicts a variant version of the myth, not recorded in any written source, in which Jason descends into the Dragon and returns with the aid of Athena. This piece is important evidence for popular Jason traditions ignored or altered by later Greek poets. (Bibi Saint-Pol / Wikimedia Commons)

Персей-Митра убивающий Медузу (тельца?)

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/sp/0607/hyeongsu/hyeongsu.html#perseus Mithraism in the Roman Empire, Mithra vs Perseus
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195067880.001.0001/acprof-9780195067880-chapter-3 Mithras and Perseus

This fragment of a Roman sarcophagus from c. 150-200 CE depicts Jason seizing the Golden Fleece with Medea. Jason was a popular figure on Roman sarcophagi because the ancient associated his quest with immortality and the conquest of death. (© Marie-Lan Nguyen / Wikimedia Commons)