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Название форумаСвободная площадка
Название темыповторы у Геродота
URL темыhttps://chronologia.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=264&topic_id=86648&mesg_id=87002
87002, повторы у Геродота
Послано guest, 14-10-2012 19:00
http://www.metrum.org/measures/dedication.htm
...he tells versions of the same story about a Queen Nitocris, about the daughter of Mycerinus, the builder of the Third Pyramid, and about the daughter of Cheops, the builder of the First Pyramid.

см. Геродот II 100, 124, 126, 129-132, 134, 135

Herodotus explains that at Sais in the Temple of Athena, that is Nit, he saw a chamber in which there was a wooden cow within which there was buried the daughter of Mykerinos, the one who committed suicide after being raped by her father; this brings to mind the relation of Pasiphaë with Daedalus, the builder of the Labyrinth. According to Greek tradition Pasiphë concealed herself within a wooden cow in order to satisfy her unnatural passion for a bull. Herodotus further reports that next to it there was another chamber with statues of twenty naked women who were the concubines of Mykerinos.

...On the shore of the Gygaian Lake there were the tombs of the Kings of Lydia, which are conical and somewhat resemble the pyramids. The Greeks understood that the Third Pyramid of Gizah was the tomb of Nitocris-Rhodopis and they called this pyramid “tomb of the hetaira,” understanding that Nitocris-Rhodopis had built it as a “memorial” with the profits of her prostitution which she performed there. Similarly the tomb of Alyattes, the third king of Lydia, was known to the Greeks as pornês mnêma, “memorial of the prostituted slave.” Herodotus (I, 93) claims that it was built by the work of prostitutes. From Herodotus one gathers also that the story of the prostitution was told also about King Cheops and the First Pyramid. A similar story must have circulated in relation to Gyges, the first king of Lydia...

- могила Алиатта, отца Креза, сооружалась аналогично пирамиде Хеопса, якобы с помощью проституток.
Могила короля Лира, по Гальфриду (см. ФиН "Шекспир..." 1.12) была сооружена в специальном подземелье под рекой Сорой (возможно это фараонские погребения в Луксоре), которое строили целый год все городские ремесленники. Не напоминает ли это описания могил царей у Геродота - могилу Алиатта, м.б. и Хеопса, подземный покой Нитокрис? Геродот считает, что Нитокрис совершила месть (месть, аналогичную мести кн. Ольги, Парисатиды, Гудрун-Кримхильды), но м.б. это был просто погребальный обряд, как и в случае Ольги - захоранивали ладью (аналог - египетские солнечные ладьи фараонов), либо сжигали ее. Подобные обычаи описывал у русов Ибн-Фадлан.
А Родопис и Нитокрис возможно одно и то же лицо, жена Псамметиха I.
Кстати история далее, в I 94 http://www.vehi.net/istoriya/grecia/gerodot/01.html не та же ли история исхода Моисея или Ноя?

...Nobody has noted that Athena Nicephoros is the same person as the Rhodopis who consecrated the obols. Rhodopis, “Rosy Face,” is the nickname of the courtesan Nitocris, mentioned elsewhere by Herodotus and by other ancient writers. As I shall show, this Nitocris was in reality a queen of the Twenty-sixth Dynasty of Egypt...
...Nitokris, which means Athena Nikephoros.” ...There there was placed the statue of the courtesan Phryne whose legendary biography has many points in common with that of the courtesan Nitocris.

Aelian in the Amorous Tales relates that the Egyptian Sayings, which probably means the fables of the Egyptian cycle, related that the courtesan Rhodopis of Naukratis was famous for her wisdom and was a lover of paradoxes and puzzles(?) (adokêta). This clearly indicates that she shared gnostic wisdom with Aesop and that she shared with him the traits by which the edifying fables about animals of Egyptian origin, which we know as Aesopian fables, were ascribed to Aesop.

Strabo (XVIII, 33, 808) and Aelian (13,33) relate that while Rhodopis was bathing an eagle stole her slippers and dropped them near King Psammetichus who searched for the wearer of the slippers and, having found her in Naukratis, married her. Scholars who have commented on The Tale of the Two Brothers have noted that in the ancient world the motif of the stolen tresses alternates with that of Aphrodite’s slipper, which we know as the Cinderella story. I may note that the motif of the slippers or tresses stolen while bathing is a variation the theme of the woman seen naked while bathing, which occurs in the story of Phryne and Susanna. Apparently the story of the man falling in love with tresses or slippers is a peculiar fetishist displacement of the more reasonable story of a man falling in love with a woman he has seen bathing. In my future study of the Odyssey I shall show that the story of Aladdin is a contamination of the story of Rhodopis with that of King Gyges of Lydia; I have already referred to the existence of a contamination of the story of Rhodopis with that of the Lydian kings. Aladdin marries the Sultan’s daughter whom he has seen from a place of concealment while she was going to a bath.

...In another version Palamedes is told by Odysseos to search for a treasure in a well and there he is crushed with stones. In the biographies of Aesop, his relation with his master Xanthos ends when Aesop, who had found a treasure, is closed in a well...

странное поведение Одиссея (Ясона?):
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Паламед
...Именно Паламед разоблачил мнимое сумасшествие недавно женившегося на прекрасной Пенелопе Одиссея, не желавшего идти на войну. Когда воины прибыли за ним в Итаку, Одиссей стал пахать поля, запрягши в плуг вола и осла и засевая их солью. Паламед положил на борозду, по которой шёл Одиссей, младенца Телемаха. Одиссей не решился погубить своего единственного сына и вынужден был покинуть на долгие годы родную Итаку, возненавидев Паламеда.
Согласно поэме «Киприи», Диомед и Одиссей утопили его, отправившись на рыбную ловлю<13>. По более распространённому рассказу, из мести позднее Одиссей подбросил Паламеду в шатер золото<14> и подложное письмо Приама с обещанием золота и обвинил его в измене, воспользовавшись тем, что Паламед советовал грекам закончить войну и вернуться на родину. По решению суда Паламед был приговорён к смерти как предатель и побит камнями<15>...

Паламед спустился в колодец за золотом и был завален камнями. Мотив подложного письма не напоминает ли письмо в Гамлете Шекспира?

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Повесть_о_двух_братьях

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella
...Another version of the story, which is similar to the Chinese version, exists in the Philippines. The story is known as "Mariang Alimango" (Mary the Crab). The ill-treated Maria wins the heart of the prince during his coming-of-age celebration, and overcomes the cruelty of her stepmother and evil stepsisters. In this version, the spirit of her dead mother reincarnates as a crab, hence the title, and serves as her "fairy godmother". The slipper-test is also present, and it has a huge resemblance to the Cinderella tales of the Middle Eastern countries...
Aspects of Cinderella may be derived from the story of Cordelia in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae. Cordelia is the youngest and most virtuous of King Leir of Briton's three daughters, however her virtue is such that it will not allow her to lie in flattering her father when he asks, so that he divides up the kingdom between the elder daughters and leaves Cordelia with nothing. Cordelia marries her love, Aginippus, King of the Franks, and flees to Gaul where she and her husband raise an army and depose her wicked sisters who have been misusing their father. Cordelia is finally crowned Queen of the Britons. However her reign only lasts five years. The story is famously retold by Shakespeare, but given a tragic ending.

Корделия - Софья Палеолог (см. "О чем на самом деле писал Шекспир...")
Кстати история Кандавла и Гигеса (I 8-12) не напоминает ли историю Сусанны-Эсфири? Также конфликт царствующих особ из-за женщины, окончившийся убийством.

есть версия, что Гигес - это Гог:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyges_of_Lydia
Many Bible scholars believe that Gyges of Lydia was the Biblical figure of Gog, ruler of Magog, who is mentioned in the Book of Ezekiel and the Book of Revelation.

http://www.metrum.org/gyges/gygold.htm THE GOLD OF GYGES
The invention of coined money is ascribed by Herodotos to the Lydians. Other sources list Pheidon of Argos, the Idaian Dactyls, and Demodike. The claims of Pheidon will be considered in Part II. By Idaian Dactyls one has to understand the priest of Kybele. Kybele is the old Mother-Goddess of Phrygia whose main cult center became Sardis after the establishment of the Lydian dynasty of the Mermnads.


"Parisatis" отчасти возможно тоже "Палеолог София" (Палисафис, переход р-л и т-ф):
ПАРИСАТИДА, Parysătis, Παρύσατις, сводная сестра и жена Дария Нота, хитрая и властолюбивая женщина, пользовавшаяся при жизни мужа громадным влиянием. Хотя она старалась тщетно по смерти Дария возвести на престол Кира, любимого младшего сына (см. Cyrus, 2), но все-таки имела сильное влияние на слабого Артаксеркса Мнемона, так что могла, по крайней мере, доставить своему любимому сыну богатые сатрапии и получать прощения после не раз повторявшихся восстаний. По смерти сына она преследовала со свирепостью и хитростью всех, которые были причастны к его смерти. Когда она устранила посредством яда ненавистную ей Статейру, жену Артаксеркса, то должна была на время оставить двор; но скоро она возвратилась и достигла прежнего влияния, исполняя всякие желания царя. Plut. Artax.
Яндекс.Словари › Классические древности, 2007

о Парисатиде у ФиН: http://www.chronologia.org/xp/2_9.html


немного лингвистики:
http://www.metrum.org/measures/palamedes.htm Palamedes
Some scholars have connected the name of Palamedes with palame, “palm of the hand, skill, cunning, handiwork,” since the hero is presented as a master of cunning. But Palamedes is a master of intellectual, scientific, skill, not of manual skill, his ingenuity is different from that of Daidalos, described as son of Eupalamos...
The second element is common ending of names such as Diomedes, Nikomedes, and Ganymedes; it expresses the idea “to be mindful of, to provide, to devise” and it almost certainly connected with the root of measures. From this root there is formed in Greek metron, “measures”, medimnos, “large unit of volume for grains”, medomai, “to be concerned, to contrive”, medon, “administrator, ruler”, metis, “advice, shrewdness”, metiao, “to meditate , to consider, to plan,” medea, “counsels, cunning, prudence, “ mestor, “counsellor”, the name Klytaimnestra means “glorious advisor” and has the same meaning as the German Radegund.
...The first part of the name Palamedes is derived from pala, “stone”. This word is found all over the Mediterranean...
...In Greek the word is used to describe a little stone (calculus) used a sa lot; palos, lot, ballot”. and paipallo, “to draw lots”. The term pala may be linked with plinthos “flat stone”... One could also consider the Latin pila, “column, pillar, pile of stones”; in Latin there is also a word pilates or pellates explained as lapidis genus. Perhaps mention should be made of the word for “ball” which is pila in Latin and palla in Greek...
It would seem that pala is a term, the spread of which goes back to an age in which there axes of stone. It appears older and more widespread than another international term that has received much attention: to the Sumerian arudu “copper’, expressed by a sign that seems to represent a kettle or a boiler, there has been connected the Latin raudus “lump of copper used as money”, the Basque urraida, “copper”, the Slavic ruda, m” iron”, the Finnish rauta, ‘iron”, the Albanian arents, “steel”, the Germanic aruz from which there was formed the German Erz, “ore metal, bronze” and the English ore, which indicates also monetary unit. The Akkadian waru, eru means “bronze copper, brazen container”.
In Greek epic language polis is ptolis and polemos is ptolemos. This linguistic peculirity may explain why the name of Palamedes apperas as Talmithe in Etruscan. A similar archaic or dialectal Greek pronunciation may explain the Latin talus, “knucklebone, die”, corresponding to a Greek palos, “ lot”, (A Latin talpa, “mole”, burrowing rodent”) Pliny (XXXIII, 4, 21, 67) reports that, in Spain a rock formation indicating the presence of gold minerals under it was called talutium, and he also mentions the occurrence in Spain of palaga for “gold nugget”. Since the name of Apollo is connected with pala in the sence of “stone“, it could be asked whether polis, which originally meant the “akropolis”, is derived from the same root and meant the “rocky”.
The epithet Pallas applied to Athena is commonly explained as meaning “young woman, wirgin”, by quoting pallax, “young man” and pallakis, “ concubine” (pileges in Hebrew); but it is significant that the Greeks did not feel that the name Pallas had such a meaning and looked for other explanations . Pallas is associated with the palladion which is a stone fallen from heaven. Athena may have acquired her character of war goddess because of her association with the palladion as Pallas Athena; Athena is the goddess who protects the city against her enemies (erysiptolis). Perhaps the name Athena Polias has the same meaning as Pallas Athena: she is the goddess of the rock, the akropolis, and of the stone (later a statue) preserved there as a palladion. The linguist Paul Kretschmer has associated the name of Athena and the country called Athika with the Latin athanuvium , atanulum, “vase, bowl”, the Latin athanulus is explained by a Greek gloss as “sacred vessel used by priests” and as “treasured object, relic”. ...Perhaps Athena being identified with a sacred vessel, was assimilated to Pallas identified with a stone that was kept as palladion. In the biblical vision of Zechariah the function of palladion is performed both by an amphora and by a weight of lead. The Hebrew Ark, a container, was placed on a stone and considered equivalent to stones.
Nilson explains the name of Apollo by the gloss of Hesychios pella= lithos, “stone”, and most probably he is right. There is no question that at Delphoi Apollo was identified with the omphalos, which is a stone, the foundation stones of the universe. The opholos with its pattern of meridians and parallels represents the upper hemisphere and hence represents the numerical order of the universe. The method of interrogating the god at Delphoi consisted in placing above the omphalos a roulette wheel in which obviously there moved a pebble or a few pebbles. Nilsson observes that at the sanctuary of Apollo Didymaios, “the Twin”, of Miletos the god was represented by two stones in form of astragalos. A copy in bronze of one of these astrogaloi has been found and it is a standard of weight. The astragaloi, like pebbles, were means for consulting the divinity and hence for revealing the numerical order of the universe. The astragaloi of the Temple of Apollo Didymaios were carried in procession, and so was the omphalos kept at the Temple of Zeus Ammon in Libya.
Apollo is the god of measure, science, philosophy, and in general of the higher intellectual activities. He is a god of music, because music is intimately connected with measurements devices. It is not surprising to see Apollo called Nomios since nomos is a part of measures; Apollo is particularly linked with legalism. In mythology he appears closely connected with the palladion of Troy and he is presented as a lover of Kassandra to whom he gave the gift of prophecy. He would have given a similar gift for similar reasons to the Cumaean Sibyl, a figure who Jews and Christians accepted as their own, since she prophesied historical events connected with astronomical ages. The Cumaean Sibyl stood inside a vessel, like the prophetess I have mentioned in relation to the Hebrew Ark.
The name of Apollo occurs as pulendja and pillenni in Lykian and a pldana in Lydian. One may wonder whether these forms contain pala and another root, corresponding thereby to the Greek Palamedes.
The conclusion that Palamedes is the lord of the stone, acquires even more relevancy when it is considered that Palamedes has some similarities to the god Hermes, the name of which means “stone, rock ballast, foundation, prop, post”, and was worshipped in the form of stones.

...Hermes is an enemy of Prometheus for the same reason that Odysseos is an enemy of Palamedes...


еще того же автора:
http://www.metrum.org/measures/metrics.htm The Origin of Metrics
...Hugh R. Watkins has shown that in England several buildings of the Norman period are calculated by units of 7 English feet; he quotes this as evidence of Russian influence carried by the Vikings, since the Russian sajen’ (the legal unit up to the Soviet Revolution) is equal to 7 English feet; but the computation of architectural dimensions by septenary units is common in all areas in all periods...