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Начало Форумы Свободная площадка Тема #110768
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Тема: "RE: арх новости" Предыдущая Тема | Следующая Тема
Воля05-08-2016 13:59
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#59. "RE: арх новости"
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в Помпеях восстановили кухню

The kitchens at the Fullonica di Stephanus. Photo: Archaeological Superintendency of Pompeii
Restored Pompeii kitchens show how Romans cooked
Published: 02 Aug 2016 12:04 GMT+02:00



особо продвинутый народ сразу среагировал на сковородку с ручкой и на плоскую сковородку, то есть на сковороду с плоским дном, я ещё на то, что та сковорода на стене похоже чугунная, и ещё про печи, то есть, когда в Европе появились закрытые печи, а не открытый очаг, ну, в качестве десерта "голландка" - кажется на форуме что-то было про неё, но я конечно забыл.

1.
Before the introduction of the kitchen stove in the mid-19th century, a commonly used cast iron cooking pan called a spider had a handle and three legs used to stand up in the coals and ashes of the fire. Cooking pots and pans with legless, flat bottoms were designed when cooking stoves became popular; this period of the late 19th century saw the introduction of the flat cast iron skillet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frying_pan

то есть до изобретения закрытой печи в 19 веке сковороды были триногие!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivet

Trivet also refers to a tripod used to elevate pots from the coals of an open fire (the word trivet itself ultimately comes from Latin tripes meaning "tripod"). Metal trivets are often tripod-like structures with three legs to support the trivet horizontally in order to hold the dish or pot above the table surface. These are often included with modern non-electric pressure cookers. A trivet may often contain a receptacle for a candle that can be lit to keep food warm.

A three-legged design is optimal because it eliminates wobbling on uneven surfaces.

вся посуда была сделана так, чтобы её можно было или подвешивать за уши над открытым огнём! или на ножках!

This meant that all cooking vessels had to be designed to be suspended on, or in, a fireplace. Cast iron pots were made with handles to allow them to be hung over a fire, or with legs so that they could stand up in the fireplace. In addition to dutch ovens, which were developed with the onset of the Industrial Revolution, a commonly used cast iron cooking pan called a spider had a handle and three legs used to stand up in the coals and ashes of the fire. Cooking pots and pans with legless, flat bottoms were designed when cooking stoves became popular; this period of the late 19th century saw the introduction of the flat cast iron skillet.

котлы-котелки!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauldron

слово появилось в 13 веке!

Etymology
The word cauldron is first recorded in Middle English as caudroun (13th century). It was borrowed from Old Northern French or Anglo-Norman caudron<1> (Norman-Picard caudron, French chaudron). It represents the phonetical evolution of Vulgar Latin *caldario for Classical Latin caldārium "hot bath", that derives from cal(i)dus "hot".<1>

The Norman-French word replaces probably the not initial new English sentence ċetel (German (Koch)Kessel "cauldron", Dutch (kook)ketel "cauldron"), Middle English chetel. The word kettle comes from the Old Norse variant spelling ketill "cauldron".<2>

2. про чугун повторяться не буду особенно! вики полагает не ранее 15 века в Западной Европе!

In the west, where it did not become available until the 15th century, its earliest uses included cannon and shot. Henry VIII initiated the casting of cannon in England. Soon, English iron workers using blast furnaces developed the technique of producing cast iron cannons, which, while heavier than the prevailing bronze cannons, were much cheaper and enabled England to arm her navy better.

The ironmasters of the Weald continued producing cast irons until the 1760s and armament was one of the main uses of irons after the Restoration.

Cast iron pots were made at many English blast furnaces at the time. In 1707, Abraham Darby patented a method of making pots (and kettles) thinner and hence cheaper than his rivals could. This meant that his Coalbrookdale furnaces became dominant as suppliers of pots, an activity in which they were joined in the 1720s and 1730s by a small number of other coke-fired blast furnaces.

The development of the steam engine by Thomas Newcomen provided further market for cast iron, since cast iron was considerably cheaper than the brass of which the engine cylinders were originally made. John Wilkinson was a great proponent of cast iron, who, amongst other things, cast the cylinders for many of James Watt's improved steam engines until the establishment of the Soho Foundry in 1795.

3. открытый очаг до 18 века!

Prior to the 18th century in Europe, people cooked over open fires fueled by wood. In the Middle Ages, waist-high brick-and-mortar hearths and the first chimneys appeared, so that cooks no longer had to kneel or sit to tend to foods on the fire. The fire was built on top of the construction; the cooking done mainly in cauldrons hung above the fire or placed on trivets. The heat was regulated by placing the cauldron higher or lower above the fire.<3>

Open fire systems had three major disadvantages that prompted an evolutionary series of improvements from the 16th century onwards: it was dangerous, it produced much smoke, and the heat efficiency was poor. Attempts were made to enclose the fire to make better use of the heat that it generated and thus reduce the wood consumption. An early step was the fire chamber: the fire was enclosed on three sides by brick-and-mortar walls and covered by an iron plate. This technique also caused a change in the kitchenware used for cooking, for it required flat-bottomed pots instead of cauldrons. The first design that completely enclosed the fire was the 1735 Castrol stove, built by the French architect François de Cuvilliés.This stove was a masonry construction with several fireholes covered by perforated iron plates and was also known as a stew stove. Near the end of the 18th century, the design was refined by hanging the pots in holes through the top iron plate, thus improving heat efficiency even more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_stove

вот до этого гениального изобретения

History
Rumford applied his knowledge of heat to the improvement of fireplaces in the 1790s. He made them smaller and shallower with widely angled covings so they would radiate better. And he streamlined the throat, or in his words "rounded off the breast" so as to "remove those local hindrances which forcibly prevent the smoke from following its natural tendency to go up the chimney..."

Rumford wrote two papers<1><2> detailing his improvements on fireplaces in 1796 and 1798. He was well known and widely read in his lifetime and almost immediately in the 1790s his "Rumford fireplace" became state-of-the-art worldwide. Subsequent testing of Rumford's designs has shown that their efficiency would qualify them as clean-burning stoves.<3>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumford_fireplace

и вот с 1790 года настало время современной печки и кухни

Origins of the modern kitchen range
The modern kitchen range was invented by Sir Benjamin Thompson, Count Rumford in the 1790s. As an active scientist and prolific inventor, he put the study of heat onto a scientific basis and developed improvements for chimneys, fireplaces and industrial furnaces, which led to his invention of the kitchen range.


Section of Rumford fireplace, invented by Sir Benjamin Thompson.
His Rumford fireplace created a sensation in London when he introduced the idea of restricting the chimney opening to increase the updraught. This was a much more efficient way to heat a room than earlier fireplaces. He and his workers modified fireplaces by inserting bricks into the hearth to make the side walls angled, and added a choke to the chimney to increase the speed of air going up the flue. The effect was to produce a streamlined air flow, so all the smoke would go up into the chimney rather than lingering and entering the room. It also had the effect of increasing the efficiency of the fire, and gave extra control of the rate of combustion of the fuel, whether wood or coal. Many fashionable London houses were modified to his instructions, and became free of smoke.<5>

Following on from this success, Thompson designed a kitchen range made of brick, with a cylindrical oven and holes in the top for the insertion of pots. When not needed, the opening could be covered over leaving the fire to smolder gently. This kitchen range was much more fuel efficient than the prevailing open hearth method and to a great degree safer. His range was widely adopted in large cooking establishments, including at the soup kitchens that Thompson built in Bavaria. However, it was too big and unwieldy to make much of an impact on domestic cooking.<6>

The first half of the nineteenth century witnessed a steady improvement in stove design. Cast iron stoves replaced those made of masonry and their size shrunk to allow them to be incorporated into the domestic kitchen. By the 1850s, the modern kitchen, equipped with a cooking range, was a fixture of middle-class homes. In 1850 Mary Evard invented the Reliance Cook Stove, which was divided in two with one half for dry baking and the other half for moist.<7> Patents issued to Mary Evard are US76315 and US76314 on April 7, 1868.<8><9> She demonstrated this stove with her husband at the St. Louis World's Fair.<10>


A 19th-century stove made in Budapest exhibited in the Međimurje County Museum, Croatia, during the Night of Museums in 2015.
In 1867 Elizabeth Hawks of New York invented and received a patent for a baking attachment for stoves, intended to spread heat thoroughly throughout loaves while keeping the top crust tender, which she called an "Auxiliary Air-chamber for Stoves." <10> This was so successful that she sold two thousand within months of its release.<11><12>

Stoves of that era commonly burned charcoal as well as wood. These stoves had flat tops and the heat was concentrated on one side of the stove top so that cooks could cook things at different temperatures based on where the pot or pan was located. This was called the "piano" system. After coal was replaced with gas, French chefs continued to prefer the smooth cooking surface and so the majority of French gas stoves had flat metal surfaces over the gas burners, which continues to be known as the "French style" today.<13>

4. ну, и теперь к голландке: на вики есть только статья такая на русском и украинском языке, мол, идею Пётр из Голландии привёз и народ перенял!

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%87%D1%8C

любопытно, что вики не смогла сделать аналогичные статьи на других языках, ни на голландском, ни на английском!

статья Dutch oven есть на вики

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_oven

но она совсем о другом:

A Dutch oven is a thick-walled cooking pot with a tight-fitting lid. Dutch ovens are usually made of cast iron, and seasoned. Some Dutch ovens are instead made of cast aluminum, or are ceramic. Some metal varieties are enameled rather than being seasoned. Dutch ovens have been used as cooking vessels for hundreds of years. They are called casserole dishes in English speaking countries other than the United States ("casserole" means "pot" in French), and cocottes in French. They are similar to both the Japanese tetsunabe and the Sač, a traditional Balkan cast-iron oven, and are related to the South African Potjie and the Australian



Dutch oven from the 1890s. Note the evidence of ashes on the lid

History
Early European history
During the late 17th century, the Dutch system of producing these cast metal cooking vessels was more advanced than the English system. The Dutch used dry sand to make their molds, giving their pots a smoother surface. Consequently, metal cooking vessels produced in the Netherlands were imported into Britain. In 1704, an Englishman named Abraham Darby decided to go to the Netherlands to observe the Dutch system for making these cooking vessels. Four years later, back in England, Darby patented a casting procedure similar to the Dutch process and began to produce cast-metal cooking vessels for Britain and her new American colonies. Thus the term “Dutch oven” has endured for over 300 years, since at least 1710.<1>

то и здесь чугунная посуда с конца 17 века!

и этой статье соответствует русская статья

Чугун (посуда)

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%83%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%BD_(%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0)

так чё получается, что Пётр якобы привёз не печку-голландку, но чугунки!? ну, это они брешут!

  

Предупредить о нарушении Копия для печати | Ответить | Ответить с цитатой

Памяти Андреаса Чурилова [Показать все] , irina, 14-07-2020 12:12
 
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Светлая ему память
23-10-2013 20:02
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RE: Светлая ему память
idler
23-10-2013 20:33
2
Сожалею
23-10-2013 21:33
3
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
24-10-2013 09:42
4
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
ALNY
24-10-2013 10:46
5
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
occ
24-10-2013 14:42
6
RE: он выглядит вполне здоровым
Абсинт
24-10-2013 21:52
10
Андреас Чурилов
24-10-2013 16:58
7
RE: Андреас Чурилов
tvy
27-10-2013 17:40
14
      RE: Андреас Чурилов
idler
27-10-2013 18:28
15
           RE: Андреас Чурилов
tvy
27-10-2013 19:52
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                RE: Андреас Чурилов
Воля
28-10-2013 16:34
17
                RE: Андреас Чурилов
portvein77
28-10-2013 17:48
18
                RE: Андреас Чурилов
28-10-2013 20:16
20
                в память об Андреасе Чурилове
tvy
28-10-2013 19:28
19
                     че за фигня
portvein77
26-11-2013 15:59
26
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
Котельников
24-10-2013 19:02
8
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
24-10-2013 20:15
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
Hagan
26-10-2013 15:00
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tvy
26-10-2013 19:09
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
pl
27-10-2013 10:33
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
BAXA
28-10-2013 20:52
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
BAXA
28-10-2013 20:55
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
BazilevsVV
30-10-2013 22:01
23
      RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
portvein77
05-11-2013 17:08
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
Валерий М
12-11-2013 17:10
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
Бондеви
28-11-2013 06:18
27
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
unicorn1
28-11-2013 18:01
28
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
portvein77
28-11-2013 18:24
29
предложение для близких знако...
30-11-2013 10:29
30
30-11-2013 10:40
31
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
14-12-2013 22:09
32
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
06-01-2014 14:54
33
RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
Прагматик
13-02-2014 12:42
34
Где купить
idler
13-02-2014 13:58
35
Белые пятна истории - авторски...
Коротицкий
27-02-2014 09:40
36
RE: Андреас Чурилов и Основател...
chispa1707
02-03-2014 22:58
37
RE: Андреас Чурилов и Основател...
idler
03-03-2014 09:14
38
RE: Это подмена
chispa1707
04-03-2014 20:56
39
      RE: Это подмена
geotech
22-03-2014 01:39
41
           RE: Это подмена
tvy
22-03-2014 11:51
42
RE: Андреас Чурилов и Основател...
psknick
06-03-2014 09:55
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Чиспе и прочим горе-критикам
02-04-2014 01:53
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      Книга "Гибель Помпеи"
aleksander
23-04-2014 01:35
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      1631 - ошибка на 200 лет
art123
05-05-2014 09:30
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RE: Умер Андреас Чурилов
07-05-2014 20:12
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Про годовщину забыли
Коротицкий
26-12-2014 18:22
47
RE: Про годовщину забыли
tvy
26-12-2014 20:56
49
Предлагаю поменять название
Коротицкий
26-12-2014 18:35
48
арх новости
10-08-2015 17:00
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      баптистерий в Геранкулануме
11-08-2015 22:09
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13-08-2015 21:03
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      RE: арх новости
05-08-2016 13:59
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           RE: арх новости
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01-02-2016 07:59
58
RE: Памяти Андреаса Чурилова
28-03-2017 18:01
60
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28-03-2017 19:09
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RE: Памяти Андреаса Чурилова - с...
29-07-2020 22:27
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