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Начало Форумы Свободная площадка Тема #86648
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Тема: "сюжеты поединка отца с сыном" Предыдущая Тема | Следующая Тема
Markgraf99_18-03-2012 19:31

  
#227. "сюжеты поединка отца с сыном"
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как показали ФиН в "Шахнаме...", история о Ростеме, убивающем, не желая того, сына Сохраба - отражение невольного убийства Иваном Грозным своего сына Ивана Молодого, на фоне истории Эсфири-Иудифи. При этом молодой Ростем описывается как Геракл = Андроник-Христос. Следует ли отсюда, что другие аналогичные истории в мифах / фольклоре разных стран и народов также должны восходить к тому же прототипу - Ивану Грозному? Далее фрагменты из книги Dean A. Miller "The epic hero", где описываются более менее похожие сюжеты.

The Sohnes Todt Theme
This is one of the most notorious and specifically Indo-European “markers” in the collected Indo-European heroic epos, which seems to emerge most clearly not only as a common Indo-European narrative element but as a characterological one. It involves that deadly duel between heroic son and heroic father in which the son will die at the father’s hand — an extreme but not a rare case of the agonistic relationship between generations contained in the typical (even the quintessential) hero tale. For Jan de Vries, who was concerned early on with the motif of the “heroic” generational conflict, there was no question but that a genuine Indo-European leitmotiv was apparent in what he termed the Vater-Sohnes-Kampf.2 A. T. Hatto then examined what he also saw as the four canonical exemplars of this conflict in the collectivity of Indo-European epic: Rustam and Sohrâb (Persian), Hildebrand and Hadubrand (Germanic), Cú Chulainn and Connla (Irish Celtic), Il’ya of Murom and Sokol’nichek (Russo-Slavic). Hatto considered the brief and fragmentary Germanic exemplar the most complete and unalloyed version, deserving of the “highest grade” for thematic power and schematic purity,3 but in fact the evidence of this central, paradigmatic confrontation is wider, and the variations within it more evocative and deeply convoluted, than any analysis of the canonical four epic incidents would suggest.4
The Ossetian Nart tales, as we often have seen, are full of wonderfully enigmatic and anomalous generational acts and sequences, but they also contain more ordinary births. One such occurs when the Nart Uryzmæg has a son, the “fils sans nom” in Dumézil’s translation, with Satána, the “mother of Narts.” Satána sends the boy to the Submarine Kingdom; Uryzmæg later meets him there and kills him “by accident” in a fight. In the old, received manner,5 neither was known to the other. This redaction also involves heterogamy (marriage or mating to a woman defined as completely “other” beyond the definition of simple exogamy) because Satána is a figure of supernatural origin and powers. Moreover, the son’s lack of a proper name appears to be a fitting parallel to that missing or obscured token of recognition between father and son in the canonical version of the theme.
The Norse-Icelandic lygisögur give us the case of Arrow-Odd (Örvar-Oddr – тот самый Орвар Одд, смерть которого параллельна смерти князя Олега) and his son Vignirr, begotten on the giantess Hildigunn in Giant-Land and raised there in the canonical fashion. At the age of ten, and already displaying his monstrous maternity in his extraordinary size and strength, Vignirr joins his father, but he is soon gruesomely killed after a hard-fought duel by the trollish and inhuman Ogmund Eythjof's-Killer. But Ogmund lays the blame for the precocious Vignirr’s death at Arrow-Odd’s door, saying that it would not have happened if Ogmund and Odd had been reconciled as the troll creature had asked. In this rendition of the theme, heterogamy and “exile” are clearly laid out, while an inhuman potency slays the son, apparently because of his father’s stubbornness. This death, however, is not by the father’s own hand.6 The Old French chansons de geste include the story of Gormont et Isambard. In this tale, evidently drawn from an historical core, a Viking raid into the Frankish realm is converted into a Saracen incursion; various changes are rung on the themes of kingship, ethnic identity, and other political and social problems,7 and the father-son conflict is deflected toward a tense subject-monarch relationship. Thus Isambard goes into exile with the heathen “Sarrazins” because King Louis had wronged him; Louis is transformed into the “distancing” father figure.8 While he is fighting on the Saracen side, Isambard and his real father, Bernard, meet in battle and exchange blows without recognizing each other, but in the end it is four French knights, again substituting for the father, who mortally wound Isambard — “but they did not know who he was” (mais ne l’unt pas reconeu).9 This Old French reflex of the theme has no strange or exotic marriage, splits of the “displacement” theme, shrinks from placing the death of the son into the father’s hands, and yet maintains a faint but intact outline of the original plot.
In another Old French source, the Perlesvaus, we find that Arthur had a son by Guinevere, Lohort or Lohout, and that this promising young man was treacherously killed by Sir Kay after Lohout had killed a giant and was, as was his custom, sleeping on his fallen foe’s body. Kay beheaded both Lohout and the giant and took the latter’s head back to Arthur to falsely claim the victory. Rather later in the tale Kay’s base deed is revealed, but he is not punished; he simply leaves the court.10 Here Kay appears to revert back to his older, more powerful and malignant persona; is he also reclaiming that “twinned” status he once shared with King Arthur? The king’s inaction in the face of Kay’s killing of Lohout is otherwise difficult to explain.
All of the above examples might be called miniatures, reduced reflexes of the original Sohnes Todt theme. The Armenian epic David of Sassoon, however, presents an almost classic confrontation between father and son — yet it, too, reveals an important variation. The eponymous hero of this epic, David, begets a son, Mher (or Pokr Mher), on a foreign woman in another, “Arab” land. In paradigmatic fashion this son is raised apart from his father but with the usual token of recognition, in this case a golden ring; the two eventually meet and, unknown to each other, fight. The fatal conclusion, however, does not come with David’s killing his son, but in this: that before he recognizes Mher, he curses him. David then goes on to his own fated end (to be slain by his own illegitimate, Amazonian daughter), and the epic ends as Mher departs this world, to become the childless cave sleeper, the undying one of Armenian heroic legend. In this case generational sequence has been convoluted, but the essential character of the fated confrontation between heroic generations remains: father dooms son through the condemnatory power of his paternal curse.11
The filicidal potency of a father’s curse, its truly mythic power, brings us around again to that Oedipal drama to which the Sohnes Todt motif is archetypically reversed and counterposed. We remember that Oedipus unknowingly slew his own father, but he also — knowingly, for cause, filled with the red choler, the orgê that indelibly marks his character and all of his condemned Kadmean line — cursed his sons, and this curse surely prepares and activates the “bad death” the two young men would suffer later at each other’s hands.12 And we recall that the ramifications of the prepotent father’s curse also figure prominently in the later part of the career of the hero-king Theseus, Oedipus’s erstwhile protector in the last episode of his high drama at Colonos, for he too cursed and so must have caused the death of his son Hippolytos.13 Theseus’s curse is called forth by twisted or lying evidence; even farther from the filicidal scenario would be the act of the hero Herakles (often “doubled” with Theseus) who, sorely afflicted by lyssa or mania, slays his own children.14 The Theseus-Hippolytos drama makes explicit the subtheme of sexual jealousy between two male generations, to which I will presently return. Before that, however, I want to examine a series of aspects exploring confusion, recognition, and comedy.
Confused, Comic, and Sexual Variations
The late Henri Grégoire, in the course of a long and detailed scholarly exegesis of the great Byzantine Greek popular or border epic, the Digenes Akrites, investigated a variety of father-son encounters. Grégoire assiduously, even obsessively searched out what he believed to be the actual historical surround of the Digenid tale, employing, among other sources, a very long old demotic Greek ballad entitled To tragoudi tou giou tou Andronikou, the Song of the Son of Andronikos. Here, as in the Digenid itself, we have the hero’s father wed or mated in a foreign land, and the later encounter of the son who results from this mating with his father, but in this particular narrative, after a hostile or threatening introduction, the father does recognize the son and welcomes the reunion. For Grégoire this balladic episode parallels the begetting of the Two-Raced (Digenid) Basil the Akritic, the Borderer, his father the Emir’s return to Romania, and the reuniting of the two.15 Rather than fatality, a kind of “testing” seems to be at the base of this rendition of the father-son conflict, a conflict Grégoire calls to pagkosmio thema, a “universal theme,” and which he easily connects with the harsher or deadlier Persian and Germanic examples of the conflict.16
The comedic version of the father-son encounter, which in many ways resembles the meeting in The Son of Andronikos, takes us back to medieval Europe and involves Rainouart, the “slow” and “blackened” comic hero of the Guillaume Cycle of chansons de geste, and his “Saracen” son Loquifer (or Maillefer).17 Rainouart, of course, follows the heroic trajectory at one exaggerated remove, so in this comic instance he meets and fights with the son he had never known, but again there is no fatality. Instead we have recognition and “incorporation” — through the baptism of the heathen son. (In the Digenid the Moslem emir, the hero’s father, is the one baptized.) The theme turns serious again, however, when sex rears its head.
The theme of the older man confronting and compassing the death of the younger emerges in various encounters pitting uncle against nephew (mother’s brother, sister’s son). The two, instead of acting within a fully normative framework of affection, mutual obligation, and reciprocity expressed in the relationship of the avunculate, break this frame entirely by introducing sexual rivalry and subsequent betrayal. The Old Irish stories describing the fatal rivalry of Conchobar and Noisiu over Dierdre, or of Finn and Diar-maid over Ghráinne, clearly set out the pattern, and at least some versions of the most famous example of all, the story of Tristan and Isolde, put Tristan’s death squarely in King Mark’s hands. The point, in this variation, is that the classificatory “son” is killed, and the classificatory “father” is responsible for his death.18 The new element is the introduction of the younger woman as an object of sexual rivalry: the confrontation is not a contest of warrior excellence but of sexual primacy, and the term “the better man” takes on a thoroughly new meaning.
Yet another instance, which brings these uncle-nephew confrontations sharply back to the main thrust of my argument, occurs in the Iliad (IX.444–84), where old Phoinix describes how and why he fled “from strife with my father Amyntor.” Because Amyntor had favored his young concubine over Phoinix’s mother, the betrayed woman besought her son to have relations beforehand (promigênai) with this concubine, to make the old man, by invidious comparison, hateful to the younger woman. But Amyntor found out and “cursed me thoroughly,” Phoinix says, enjoining in particular that Phoinix should never himself beget any child.19 Phoinix considered killing his father but forbore, “that I might not be called a parricide among the Achaeans” (461). Phoinix’s relatives and friends tried to keep him at Amyntor’s court but he fled to Peleus, Akhilleus’s father.20 This last episode constructs a complicated variant on our theme: (a) the father again reverses the generative-sexual norm, in parallel to the two uncles in the Celtic citations; (b) the son’s interference in this malformed relationship brings down the paternal curse, so that (c) like the Armenian hero Pokr Mher, Phoinix will have no child, that is, will be “dead”; (d) Phoinix considers killing his father “with the sharp bronze” (oxei khalk , but instead he (e) flees to where he finds a second, fostering relationship with Peleus. This is a cross-fertilizing rendition of our base theme, touching and connecting numerous other cores of the story: sexual jealousy and generational reversal, the sterilizing curse, a threat of parricide avoided, and removal to a parallel but artificial generational scheme.
The Death of the Son Explained
Why is the Sohnes Todt theme, and particularly its primary format, so important? What motivates the act and drama? And how can such a theme be identifiable as peculiarly Indo-European?
Various heroic-epic contexts in which the theme is visible make a point of the tremendous heroism the hero’s son would inevitably have displayed — had he lived. Cú Chulainn’s son and victim, Connla, says this of himself; Arrow-Odd’s son Vignirr, according to his killer, would have been “the bravest and toughest in all Scandinavia”; and, in a slightly variant instance, the mortally stricken Sohrâb was not cured by King Kâvus because of what the king knew a son of the tremendous Rostam would surely become...

http://books.google.ru/books?id=z01SydnDwwYC&printsec=frontcover&hl=ru#v=onepage&q&f=false
The epic hero Авторы: Dean A. Miller. содержание -> Beyond immortality

См. также ссылки:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кухулин
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_of_Hildebrand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digenes_Akritas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rvar-Oddr

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/lucy-mary-jane-garnett/greece-of-the-hellenes-nra/page-20-greece-of-the-hellenes-nra.shtml
Read the ebook - Greece of the Hellenes by Lucy Mary Jane Garnett
...The heroes of the earliest of the definitely historical series of Greek folk-ballads have, as might be expected, assumed more or less of a mythical character. The group of Byzantine ballads I refer to are those which have been classed as the Andronikos or Digenes Akritas Cycle. Formerly believed to be mere fabulous personages — Greek demigods of the Classical period transformed by the popular imagination — the heroes of these ballads have been shown by M. Emile Legrand to have been historical personages of the tenth century. Andronikos was Andronikos Doukas, a member of the reigning Byzantine family and governor of a province in Asia Minor ; Digenes Akritas was the son of Arete, the beautiful daughter of Andronikos, and wife of Mansour, the Arab Emir of Syria, who had for her sake abjured Islam ; and Basil, the son of this romantic marriage, was surnamed Digenes, Alyevt]?- — " of two races "—from the fact of his parentage, and Akritas from his occupation as guardian-in-chief of the eastern frontiers of the Empire. In the popular ballads, however, he is exalted to the rank of a demi-god, and the character of the exploits related of him appears to witness to the influence of the old myths connected with the names of Herakles, Perseus, and Bellerophon. In the following lines from the ballad of " Andronikos and his Two Sons," the Emperor Nikephoros II and three other historical personages are mentioned —
" Forth goes he, and his fame is great, and no man him can daunton,
Not even Peter Phokas, no, nor even Nikeph6ras ;
Nor Petrotrachilos, who makes the earth and kosmos tremble ;
Nor Konstantino does he fear, should he in fair fight meet him."
According to folk-ballad — which is corroborated by an epic poem translated by M. Emile Legrand, Les Exploits de Digenes Akritas — this grandson of Andronikos died at the age of thirty-three, in the year 979. And a Cretan ballad thus describes his death —
" The throes of death seize Digenes, and earth with dread is trembling ;
And heaven, too, is thund'ring loud, and upper kosmos quaking ;
How can the cold grave cover him, how cover such a hero ? "

In another Cretan ballad, however, the death of the hero is represented as the result of a wrestling match with Charon —
" Long time they wrestle, but, as yet, one has not thrown the other; And Charon thinks within himself by treachery he'll conquer. Then trips he up young Digenes, and on the ground he throws him. And his poor mother, left forlorn, the draught of poison swallowed."

  

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Он же Лев III, Лев IV
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Предки Чингисхана
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Фемида-Юдифь
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Кёльнский собор якобы 15 века
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Другие тюрбаны из того же века
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Ещё тюрбаны у Дюрера
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      10 тысяч христиан
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33
Даты рождения царей
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portvein77
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25-01-2011 09:24
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Турецкие султаны-ханы
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Иисус Христос и Иисус Навин
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vitkon
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церкви-цирки
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RE: церкви-цирки
авчур
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даты рождения-смерти великих
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этимология "чичисбея"
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красный маркер
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RE: Wasilgorod = Василь город
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31-07-2011 12:21
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средневековый Сененмут
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Давид и Иоав в роли Одиссея?
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94
RE: пророчество Валаама о Давид...
Воля
19-08-2011 10:41
95
      RE: пророчество Валаама о Давид...
Markgraf99_
21-08-2011 02:27
96
хронология у Мосгейма
Markgraf99_
21-08-2011 02:39
97
RE: хронология у Мосгейма
Воля
21-08-2011 12:25
98
RE: хронология у Мосгейма
Markgraf99_
21-08-2011 14:37
99
RE: хронология у Мосгейма
Воля
22-08-2011 14:03
100
халдеи
Markgraf99_
25-08-2011 20:27
103
      RE: халдеи
Воля
26-08-2011 10:01
104
      RE: халдеи
Воля
26-08-2011 11:46
105
Markgraf99_
31-08-2011 20:55
108
в каком Египте жил Макарий Але...
Markgraf99_
24-08-2011 21:31
101
RE: в каком Египте жил Макарий А...
Воля
25-08-2011 13:52
102
Авраам и Нимрод
Markgraf99_
30-08-2011 00:59
106
RE: Авраам и Нимрод, по касатель...
Воля
30-08-2011 13:22
107
болгарские ср-век. тексты
Markgraf99_
03-09-2011 04:08
109
Абсинт
03-09-2011 22:34
110
Воля
06-09-2011 15:18
112
Ремезовская летопись о древни...
Markgraf99_
11-09-2011 14:25
113
Александр Великий, Горгона и п...
Markgraf99_
12-09-2011 09:31
114
Христос и антихрист
Markgraf99_
15-09-2011 10:28
115
Armilus; антихрист; металлургия
Markgraf99_
13-11-2012 20:48
377
юродивый Андрей Цареградский
Markgraf99_
15-09-2011 22:18
116
древнерусское юродство
Markgraf99_
16-09-2011 14:24
117
Markgraf99_
19-09-2011 11:39
118
Мария-Пророчица
Markgraf99_
21-09-2011 13:03
119
а что за цифры?
Воля
21-09-2011 16:52
120
RE: а что за цифры?
Markgraf99_
21-09-2011 19:51
121
      RE: а что за цифры?
Воля
22-09-2011 11:55
122
RE: Мария-Пророчица
vitkon
18-11-2012 18:17
383
"История водки" Похлёбкина
Markgraf99_
24-09-2011 21:20
123
крест и полумесяц-кресцентий
Markgraf99_
25-09-2011 22:54
124
восход Моисея - вознесение?
Markgraf99_
26-09-2011 21:29
126
RE: крест и полумесяц-кресценти...
Абсинт
27-09-2011 06:55
127
терновый венец из борщевика
Markgraf99_
25-09-2011 22:57
125
Святополк-Каин?
Markgraf99_
13-10-2011 10:29
129
RE: Святополк-Каин?
авчур
13-10-2011 18:59
132
Кай
13-10-2011 20:01
133
Глеб Филя
13-10-2011 20:50
134
      RE: Глеб Филя
Markgraf99_
14-10-2011 05:58
136
      RE: Глеб Филя
Markgraf99_
16-10-2011 08:09
150
Боголюбово
Markgraf99_
13-10-2011 11:08
130
RE: Боголюбово
13-10-2011 12:42
131
      RE: Боголюбово
Markgraf99_
14-10-2011 05:38
135
           RE: Боголюбово
14-10-2011 10:07
137
Русский Север - Колыбель Цивил...
Markgraf99_
14-10-2011 11:31
138
RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
14-10-2011 12:45
139
      RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
bioplant
14-10-2011 18:41
140
      RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
Philos
14-10-2011 19:26
141
           RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
bioplant
14-10-2011 21:18
142
                RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
15-10-2011 00:21
143
                RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
Philos
15-10-2011 09:52
145
                RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
bioplant
17-10-2011 11:42
154
                Кавалерия
адвокат 3
17-10-2011 10:17
152
                     RE: Кавалерия
bioplant
17-10-2011 11:39
153
                          Так то поляки, а мы о казаках
адвокат 3
17-10-2011 21:06
155
      RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
Thietmar2
15-10-2011 08:33
144
           RE: Русский Север - Колыбель Цив...
16-10-2011 23:36
151
св. Екатерина в роли Юдифи?
Markgraf99_
15-10-2011 13:23
146
RE: св. Екатерина в роли Юдифи?
авчур
15-10-2011 14:07
147
RE: св. Екатерина в роли Юдифи?
Markgraf99_
15-10-2011 14:27
148
RE: св. Екатерина в роли Юдифи?
Markgraf99_
15-10-2011 16:54
149
Милон Кротонский
Markgraf99_
18-10-2011 13:24
156
RE: Милон Кротонский
Markgraf99_
18-10-2011 18:28
157
семья Ченчи
Markgraf99_
19-10-2011 22:42
158
Венеция: встреча Востока и Зап...
Markgraf99_
21-10-2011 16:51
159
Лабрюйер о старых нравах
Markgraf99_
24-10-2011 19:28
160
Изида, Моисей и Гермес Триждыв...
Markgraf99_
30-10-2011 00:17
161
Markgraf99_
01-11-2011 23:35
162
миф о рождении героя
Markgraf99_
02-11-2011 15:14
163
RE: миф о рождении героя
Markgraf99_
02-11-2011 21:09
164
      RE: миф о рождении героя
Markgraf99_
02-11-2011 23:05
165
Анх, Танит, Тиет
Markgraf99_
05-11-2011 20:51
166
Один, Одиссей и другие
Markgraf99_
11-11-2011 09:10
167
дубляж рождества и распятия
Markgraf99_
15-11-2011 01:39
168
John R. Salverda о древних евреях и гр...
Markgraf99_
17-11-2011 16:29
169
римские папы с 15 века
Markgraf99_
17-11-2011 16:35
170
этимология мандорлы
Markgraf99_
18-11-2011 07:45
171
ослиная челюсть Каина
Markgraf99_
19-11-2011 20:31
172
'Краткая история Московии' Мил...
Markgraf99_
18-12-2011 02:42
173
Миклигарт и Блаланд
Markgraf99_
18-12-2011 04:08
174
образы Грааля?
Markgraf99_
20-12-2011 13:19
175
Апулей о казни Христа?
Markgraf99_
03-01-2012 04:05
176
RE: Апулей о казни Христа?
авчур
03-01-2012 06:52
177
ключ и крест; Хризерос и Крез
Markgraf99_
04-01-2012 16:41
178
Markgraf99_
13-01-2012 19:47
185
Россия и Италия, 15 век
Markgraf99_
07-01-2012 06:05
179
Жанна Безумная
Markgraf99_
08-01-2012 18:12
181
лженаучный диагноз
08-01-2012 20:11
182
рыжеволосые в истории
Markgraf99_
11-01-2012 10:40
183
листая Авиценну
Markgraf99_
13-01-2012 14:35
184
где был древний Мемфис
Markgraf99_
14-01-2012 09:14
187
Воля
14-01-2012 13:15
188
Скрипка Страдивари - отстой
Абсинт
13-01-2012 21:56
186
старые карты крепости Ерос
Markgraf99_
15-01-2012 20:31
189
монокль императора Нерона
Markgraf99_
16-01-2012 14:48
190
из Карла Маркса
Markgraf99_
18-01-2012 16:08
191
Ирод и Мариамна
Markgraf99_
22-01-2012 21:07
192
RE: некрофилы в истории
Markgraf99_
24-01-2012 22:26
193
      Периандр-Ирод и Арион-Христос ...
Markgraf99_
26-01-2012 16:53
194
     
Воля
27-01-2012 12:53
196
      жены Периандра, Камбиса, Ирода...
Markgraf99_
02-02-2012 17:24
198
     
Markgraf99_
03-06-2012 19:16
252
злые жены Сократа и Иова
Markgraf99_
29-01-2012 01:47
197
тема инцеста, Эдип, Иуда и др.
Markgraf99_
08-02-2012 19:59
199
Эдип и король Лир
Markgraf99_
13-02-2012 14:39
202
О. Уайльд о злодеях истории; Ме...
Markgraf99_
11-02-2012 09:19
200
Мелеагр и Ахилл
Markgraf99_
07-03-2012 00:54
219
      Геракл и Ахилл
Markgraf99_
17-03-2012 04:24
225
     
Markgraf99_
15-05-2012 23:43
250
Впишите драхмы в хронологию! С...
Batman
12-02-2012 07:14
201
Про драхмы в НХ и ТХ.
21-02-2012 17:58
207
      Вывод похоже таков:
Batman
22-02-2012 04:09
209
Нерваль о школе Ронсара
Markgraf99_
14-02-2012 11:38
203
Markgraf99_
17-02-2012 14:46
204
Воля
17-02-2012 15:03
205
было на близкую тему
21-02-2012 18:03
208
Markgraf99_
21-02-2012 16:30
206
Markgraf99_
27-02-2012 00:56
210
Пегас и единорог
Markgraf99_
27-02-2012 01:07
211
Алкей о холодной зиме
Markgraf99_
29-02-2012 23:29
212
снежный Хиос
Markgraf99_
21-09-2012 12:37
331
Markgraf99_
01-03-2012 23:00
213
RE: Onesicritus
Markgraf99_
02-03-2012 15:26
214
Боголюбский и 'лже'Дмитрий
Markgraf99_
05-03-2012 21:15
215
RE: Боголюбский и 'лже'Дмитрий
06-03-2012 00:05
216
Гамлет и Эдип, Нерон, Брут...
Markgraf99_
06-03-2012 06:08
217
Бова Королевич, Гамлет и други...
Markgraf99_
08-06-2012 01:17
254
RE: Разные мелкие вопросы
balandinkv
06-03-2012 19:23
218
Триптолем и Андроник-Христос
Markgraf99_
07-03-2012 01:18
220
Markgraf99_
10-03-2012 05:07
221
RE: Эзоп
Markgraf99_
11-03-2012 02:30
222
      И.Волоцкий и басни; Ахиакар и А...
Markgraf99_
11-03-2012 22:03
223
E. C. Brewer. The reader's handbook of allusions...
Markgraf99_
17-03-2012 08:08
226
RE: св. Патрик и Иван IV
Markgraf99_
03-05-2012 19:48
246
сюжеты поединка отца с сыном
Markgraf99_
18-03-2012 19:31
227
Иван III и его сын
tvy
18-03-2012 19:46
228
      RE: Иван III и его сын
Markgraf99_
18-03-2012 21:32
229
      RE: Иван III и Иван IV
Markgraf99_
03-05-2012 19:18
245
Дигенис Акрит, Александр, Хрис...
Markgraf99_
25-03-2012 01:23
230
Берос - богатырь
Воля
25-03-2012 13:34
231
Отелло и Геракл
Markgraf99_
27-03-2012 18:12
232
     
Markgraf99_
28-03-2012 19:33
233
Markgraf99_
04-04-2012 23:06
234
Markgraf99_
06-04-2012 17:08
235
Markgraf99_
06-08-2012 19:55
284
RE: Разные ссылки
Markgraf99_
09-04-2012 08:20
236
Ф.Энгельс об истории Ирландии ...
Markgraf99_
12-04-2012 11:39
237
Джеффри Китинг о скифах
Markgraf99_
06-05-2012 19:43
249
Markgraf99_
14-04-2012 00:36
238
wikipedia: Сергий Бахира
Markgraf99_
14-04-2012 11:06
239
RE: и о митрополите Филиппе
Markgraf99_
19-04-2012 00:12
240
RE: церковь Петрониллы?
Markgraf99_
30-04-2012 10:56
243
     
Markgraf99_
08-08-2012 17:22
287
Магомет и Сергий Радонежский
Markgraf99_
16-07-2012 23:02
264
Markgraf99_
17-07-2012 19:38
265
Markgraf99_
21-07-2012 22:45
269
Markgraf99_
22-08-2012 20:48
295
У Хань. Жизнеописание Чжу Юань...
Markgraf99_
21-04-2012 22:54
241
Кир, Томирис и XIV век
Markgraf99_
18-09-2012 21:14
328
Саади; Мани; Лукман
Markgraf99_
27-04-2012 19:57
242
Али-Аарон-Айюб...
Markgraf99_
02-05-2012 23:09
244
сеиды
Markgraf99_
03-06-2012 21:15
253
Абуль-Фарадж №1 и №2
Markgraf99_
03-05-2012 20:16
247
Markgraf99_
06-05-2012 02:15
248
Markgraf99_
27-05-2012 20:32
251
Античный Рим
Gay_R
08-06-2012 08:06
255
      RE: Ганнибал
Markgraf99_
08-06-2012 12:55
256
Markgraf99_
18-06-2012 13:34
257
Царь-град в 14 веке.
Туловище
19-06-2012 12:58
258
Ф.Бэкон. О пророчествах
Markgraf99_
21-06-2012 19:56
259
RE: Региомонтан
Markgraf99_
22-06-2012 01:04
260
битва при Толбиаке. Хлодвиг - К...
Markgraf99_
12-07-2012 20:06
261
Микеланджело и Коперник
Markgraf99_
14-07-2012 00:43
262
Стендаль о Леонардо да Винчи
Markgraf99_
14-07-2012 03:05
263
еще о местоположении Новгород...
Markgraf99_
20-07-2012 20:02
266
Пандора-пушка и Ева
Markgraf99_
21-07-2012 04:32
267
пушки в мифах о Дионисе?
Markgraf99_
21-07-2012 08:55
268
ссылка на сходную тему
Markgraf99_
25-08-2012 20:56
298
Markgraf99_
22-07-2012 07:27
270
Markgraf99_
29-07-2012 18:45
275
     
Markgraf99_
30-07-2012 09:42
276
           RE: Парис и Гекуба
Markgraf99_
30-07-2012 15:08
277
Пандора-пушка и Ева (продолжен...
Markgraf99_
23-07-2012 05:11
271
о значимости 14 века
Markgraf99_
24-07-2012 22:54
272
порох как святой дух?
Markgraf99_
25-07-2012 11:56
273
Markgraf99_
26-07-2012 02:59
274
RE: о значимости 14 века
Markgraf99_
13-08-2012 23:34
293
Малыш_(бомба)
Markgraf99_
16-08-2012 13:00
294
Афина и дева Мария
Markgraf99_
22-08-2012 22:49
296
      кузнецы; вельвы-волхвы; грайи, ...
Markgraf99_
24-08-2012 21:28
297
      RE: крест-наковальня и распятие
Markgraf99_
26-08-2012 04:53
299
      Одиссей и Персей
Markgraf99_
01-09-2012 08:54
306
     
Markgraf99_
02-09-2012 19:18
308
          
Markgraf99_
02-09-2012 22:58
310
     
Markgraf99_
02-09-2012 21:01
309
Пан, Тифон и пушки
Markgraf99_
12-08-2012 16:37
290
RE: Колхидский дракон
Markgraf99_
12-08-2012 23:09
291
     
Markgraf99_
12-08-2012 23:27
292
кубок Ликурга
Markgraf99_
07-10-2012 20:41
348
Кадм и Давид
Markgraf99_
31-07-2012 22:04
278
RE: Кадм и Давид
Воля
01-08-2012 10:48
279
      RE: Кадм и Давид
Markgraf99_
01-08-2012 18:24
280
           Константин Великий и Моисей
Markgraf99_
05-08-2012 14:36
282
               
Markgraf99_
05-08-2012 15:15
283
Флегрейские поля - Куликово по...
Markgraf99_
02-08-2012 17:25
281
Markgraf99_
07-08-2012 21:14
285
Markgraf99_
08-08-2012 11:21
286
Markgraf99_
12-08-2012 00:00
289
из статьи "Христианство и языч...
Markgraf99_
10-08-2012 20:34
288
Markgraf99_
27-08-2012 19:49
300
Markgraf99_
29-08-2012 20:45
301
Markgraf99_
30-08-2012 02:34
302
      RE: Одиссей и Арджуна
Markgraf99_
30-08-2012 13:01
303
           сражение Одиссея с женихами
Markgraf99_
31-08-2012 00:11
304
           о поклонении волхвов
Markgraf99_
31-08-2012 21:58
305
           Одиссей и Фрикс
Markgraf99_
08-09-2012 10:00
319
                Минотавр, Талос и другие
Markgraf99_
09-09-2012 23:45
320
                Lost-wax casting (cire perdue)
Markgraf99_
10-09-2012 09:47
321
                RE: Дедал, Моисей и Христос
Markgraf99_
10-09-2012 14:21
322
                RE: Одиссей
Markgraf99_
11-09-2012 23:46
323
                     RE: феакийцы
Markgraf99_
12-09-2012 09:06
324
                     Пифей; аримаспы-циклопы
Markgraf99_
26-09-2012 19:57
342
Батрахомиомахия
Markgraf99_
02-09-2012 18:23
307
еще раз о Людовике XI и Тиберии-...
Markgraf99_
02-09-2012 23:51
311
кн. Владимирко: В наше время чу...
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 12:33
312
Нарайан. Яяти и кесарево сечен...
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 12:51
313
RE: Нарайан. Яяти
Markgraf99_
01-12-2013 07:36
384
Нарайан. Деви как Юдифь, Жанна ...
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 13:01
314
Деви и Кали
Markgraf99_
01-12-2013 07:53
385
Манматха-Амур; третий глаз Шив...
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 13:46
315
RE: третий глаз и пушки
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 19:16
316
немного о Раме
Markgraf99_
05-09-2012 19:41
317
RE: немного о Раме
Vohus
07-09-2012 17:23
318
аргонавтика
Markgraf99_
14-09-2012 00:05
325
Markgraf99_
15-09-2012 13:26
326
Markgraf99_
17-09-2012 15:45
327
Прометей, Тантал и другие
Markgraf99_
18-09-2012 23:47
329
Пелопс и Осирис
Markgraf99_
21-09-2012 13:38
332
      Пелопс и Геракл, Ахав, Аркад
Markgraf99_
21-09-2012 21:11
333
      Офельт и царевич Дмитрий?
Markgraf99_
22-09-2012 21:49
335
     
Markgraf99_
25-09-2012 05:43
338
Персы Тимофея
Markgraf99_
19-09-2012 21:43
330
волосы в мифологии
Markgraf99_
21-09-2012 23:53
334
распятие Павсания
Markgraf99_
22-09-2012 22:18
336
Мардук и Тиамат
Markgraf99_
25-09-2012 04:48
337
Мардук-Зевс и Тиамат-титан
Markgraf99_
25-09-2012 14:57
339
      RE: Мардук-Зевс и Тиамат-титан
Воля
02-10-2012 11:50
346
"лобные знаки"
Markgraf99_
25-09-2012 22:33
340
Вефиль Иакова - метеорит?
Markgraf99_
25-09-2012 23:16
341
Тарпейская скала, Тарпея
Markgraf99_
29-09-2012 00:24
343
Апис-Осирис и Золотой телец
Markgraf99_
02-10-2012 08:34
344
RE: Апис-Осирис и Золотой телец
Воля
02-10-2012 11:48
345
RE: Апис-Осирис, Золотой телец и...
Markgraf99_
14-10-2012 12:05
353
      повторы у Геродота
Markgraf99_
14-10-2012 19:00
355
крест и метеорит
Markgraf99_
02-10-2012 12:09
347
могила Ореста
Markgraf99_
14-10-2012 16:37
354
RE: Христос и Артемида, упавшие ...
Markgraf99_
19-10-2012 00:46
357
Артемида, упавшая с Зевса, и Аф...
Markgraf99_
19-10-2012 17:47
359
RE: Гефест
Markgraf99_
19-10-2012 17:23
358
Bell's New Pantheon Or Historical Dictionary... 1790
Markgraf99_
07-10-2012 21:08
349
RE: Bell's New Pantheon Or Historical Dictionary... 179
Markgraf99_
07-10-2012 21:22
350
RE: Bell's New Pantheon Or Historical Dictionary... 179
Воля
11-10-2012 13:08
352
еще из скандинавских саг
Markgraf99_
10-10-2012 20:20
351
раскопки Елены + др. параллели
Markgraf99_
17-10-2012 22:20
356
Markgraf99_
21-10-2012 19:47
360
RE: Мидас и Медуза
Markgraf99_
22-10-2012 16:51
361
Соломон, Мидас, Нума и др.
Markgraf99_
27-10-2012 17:00
366
стимфалийские птицы
Markgraf99_
27-10-2012 20:43
367
Викрамадитья и вампир
Markgraf99_
28-10-2012 00:54
368
Асмодей-Шамир и Христос
Markgraf99_
01-11-2012 00:39
371
RE: Беллерофон, Пегас
Markgraf99_
05-11-2012 00:34
374
Прокруст - кузнечный подтекст
Markgraf99_
22-10-2012 22:09
362
Орион и Христос
Markgraf99_
23-10-2012 01:25
363
RE: маги-волхвы; Авраам
Markgraf99_
23-10-2012 15:54
364
      RE: маги-волхвы;
Воля
24-10-2012 12:31
365
Markgraf99_
29-10-2012 21:28
369
Деметрий Полиоркет
Markgraf99_
30-10-2012 00:41
370
Markgraf99_
02-11-2012 02:28
372
Иван IV, великий император
Markgraf99_
02-11-2012 23:16
373
ложь о предках-царях Алексея М...
Markgraf99_
11-11-2012 01:32
375
троянский конь
Markgraf99_
13-11-2012 18:07
376
хроника Шеделя на английском
Markgraf99_
17-11-2012 21:36
378
RE: хроника Шеделя на английско...
Markgraf99_
18-11-2012 04:46
379
расположение Польши
Markgraf99_
18-11-2012 14:09
380
RE: Разные мелкие вопросы
vitkon
18-11-2012 17:12
381

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